@ljs @ohjames AFAICT #Android for the most part doesn't do much of an #init system and merely uses #toybox to make it's #UI able to run and completely abstract the underlying system.

• And even if it were to run it, without #rooting AND extensive knowledge of #Linux most people won't even be able to do so.

Plus yeeting the init system - even if it's just a single /etc/init file will brick the system and necessitates reflashingbabnew ROM.

• In theory one could migrate fron one init system to another but explaining that will exceed my 11.000 character limit and makes even less sense.

https://infosec.space/@kkarhan/114823570684841139

@gettie @chesheer Sadly not even #AdelieLinux, which @ActionRetro uses all the time...

I am working on an #i486 distro ( @OS1337) but for #i386 the support in terms of Linux ended with Versions 3.4.99 LTS & 3.6.9 respectably, and my #userland & #toolchain (#toybox & #musl-cross) doesn't support that at all, and I'd propably have more success convincing @landley to join #OS1337 than to support i386 even if I could pay him for that!

@FandaSin @cleverboi @BrodieOnLinux @neal I think #i486 is a good baseline because that's the furthest some systems can go!

• And supporting #i386 is out of the question for @OS1337 - unless someone wants to also abckport #toybox and #musl!

https://infosec.space/@kkarhan/114738983433662865

@cleverboi @FandaSin @BrodieOnLinux @neal as for #i386 I understood why cuz it was more and more painful m, but the problem with #i486 is that in several #embedded and #industrial setups there are still newly deloyed systems based off it.

I.e. #Vortex86 #SoC's cuz #MSDOS and shit still gets used in #industrial equipment.

• And #Linux is kinda necessary to keep that rollin'...

Linux stopped supporting i386 with versions 3.4.99 (longterm) & 3.6.9 respectably.

• And unlike with i386 where none of the toolchain (#musl) and utilities (#toybox) supoort it, i486 is still supported there.

And I really want to continue developing a minimalist "rescue" distro that can handle such legacy hardware because it may be the only option to ddrescue stuff from certain systems or to properly & reproduceably backup & restore them!

@mrmasterkeyboard @landley My goal with @OS1337 is to go beyond the #mkroot functionality of #toybox and allow for something that can be as brutally simple (as like a BOOT-ROM) or elaborate as desired, with the specific focus on being useable in 80x25 MDA.

@landley @mrmasterkeyboard nodds in agreement

Granted the #IETF also accepts proprietary standards like #HSRP which resulted in #CARP being developed.

• In the end, I think #toybox is "Praxis" as in "Just build it!"...

@mrmasterkeyboard I mean, that's why I chose #musl for @OS1337...

Shoutout again to @landley for making this super easy by releasing the musl-cross - toolchain used for #toybox, making it super easy to just build against that.

@mrmasterkeyboard @landley I mean, that's why I use #toybox for @OS1337, because I can't be assed to deal with the convoluted mess of #GNUtils and I do want to make a #GNU-free, minimalist distro that I can use as a baseline for #Firmware.

@landley @mrmasterkeyboard yeah.

Personally, if "producing paper" wasn't undesireable you'd propably consider just taking the subsets of #POSIX and #LSB you're implementing and standardizing that as a sorf-of "#TINYNIX" (MININIX may be confused with Minix, MICRONIX and NANONIX already exist) standard.

• Simply because you've propably taken a look at every userland-tool you want to include or have included in #toybox and asked if it's necessary to make a self-hosting OS.

I just tend to ask what are the comfort features and tools that I use and want if I have to use "my little distro" for my daily job as linux sysadmin.

@mrmasterkeyboard @landley glad I could get you guys connected then...

I'm convinced #toybox is a good #userland to get a basic OS up and running and on it's feet. If it's good enough for #Android then it's certainly gonna be good enough for #embedded stuff as well...

• After all that seems to be the main goal of it: Allowing "self-hosting" as in building itself under itself if not deliver under the same OS...

I don't leverage that capability with #OS1337 (at least for now) but that's because I treat it more akin to how #VxWorks and #WindRiverLinux is being developed and deployed...

@mrmasterkeyboard I mean, you're way deeper into the weeds than I am, and I guess you're competent enough to find any issues with #toybox and let @landley know about them.

@mrmasterkeyboard If that #kernel is mostly #POSIX-compatible it should be possible to port #toybox over there (alongside any other software one may want to get running on @OS1337), but that's as far as I know.

Not shure if @landley has the time and spoons beyond testing toybox against #Linux as he does aim to make it a better alternative to #BusyBox & #GNUtils.

@mrmasterkeyboard np.

To me @OS1337 is just an attempt to a minimalist #Linux distro because I want some #reproduceable & #auditable #firmware for various other projects, and both @yoctoproject and #RaspberryPiOS 'lite' seem rather excessive to me.

• Also a proper minimalist #CLI-based #distro that can be used for an "#SSH-#Terninal" does have merits.

I just think that it can have serious benefits being less distracting and allowing me (and others) to just use basically any hardware to get work done...

• The rest of the component selection came because it was either dictated by necessity (Linux has the most driver support and biggest community), alignment with values & goals ( @landley 's #toybox is a clean & minimalist userland) and being better than #GNU stuff (i.e. @musl / #musl) by not bricking shit at random minor updates…

@lmemsm basically the Idea behind it is to be a brutally simple #toybox + #musl / #linux distro that grew out of the necessity for me to actually think about #firmware for some projects.

• And lets just say I did saw @w84death 's #Floppynux and @landley did present a lot of convincing arguments alongside a literal walktrough to get started.

Basically I want something that is so simple and auditable that it's practical to make it pass any #verification demands for #SecureTerminal|s in #CriticalInfrastructure and #Communications.

• OFC one may point at my other projects and say: "Why don't you just put #RaspberryPiOS on a #microSD?" ignoring that the smallest image is >330MB in size and that seems kinda overkill for essentially my demands for a minimalist #Linux with very few programs in userspace.

Not to mention a #GNUfree - #Linux distro is the way to go if I want that thing to not get bricked constantly by minor #GlibC-changes...

• End goal is something akin to #MSDOS in it's brutal simplicity, but way more extendable.

I hope that answers your question...

• Sorry for the delay.

@davidgerard problem is that I can't rely on #python being available and being allowed to install it!

• Whereas #bash (or a subset of it as in #toybox) does exist on any #Linux that isn't specifically not having it...

@wyatt Also glancing from the #PC98 architecture and specific quirks that #Linux accounts for in menuconfig it's most likely not gonna be enough to "just boot the #i486 version of @OS1337"...
https://github.com/OS-1337/OS1337/blob/main/OS1337-core-prerelease.img

• Tho given the fact this is just a #toybox + #musl / Linux Distro that is barely booting using #syslinux and able to spit out a 80x25 MDA console, it is in an early infancy.

As for the specifics of the #PC9821+ and their detailed hardware I'm clueless beyond the Wikipedia Article and can only Assume anything before a (RAM-upgraded) #9821Ap & #9801BA is off the table and a #9821Af or better is desireable as the 14,6MB RAM limit will really become a problem quickly, as I'm pretty shure it's impossible to get linux-6.6.6 run on anything below 8MB at all and most recommendations hint that 16MB is more often than not a practical limit (tho that may be becaise 10/12/14 and other "asymetric" configurations were already avoided back then)...

• The #9821Ce should be workable in theory tho again that's just me reading a specsheet.

On the flipside I did manage to install #WindowsXP on machines with 32MB RAM and actually get them to display a desktop (abeit with seconds per frame instead of frames per second) so this is more likely a question of chipping down things.

• Worst-Case one could see to build a bootable CD-ROM or dd something on a #BlueSCSI or similar...

@wyatt +9001%

I want shit to be as brutally simple as #C because I can just take #musl, #toybox, #linux & #syslinux and with a few config files make a booting #distro like @OS1337 …

@Madic @lmemsm nodds in agreement

Last time I checked #toybox only had su, not #sudo, but outside if #OS1337 I do stick with the distro's defaults cuz they should know best how to keep it as secure as can be.

@kobilacroix nah.

You'd propably find him and Howard doing some weird shit, like an #OpenBSD / #toybox distro or a #DragonflyBSD cluster...

@gettie I know #i386-#linux support was deprecared and #i486SX became minimum spec as per linux-3.4.99 & linux-3.6.9 respectably.

• And yes, the deprecared i386 support and non-support by #toybox is why @OS1337 requires an #i486 minimum. (And frankly, I don't blame @landley cuz by the time toxbox got started i386 was long deprecared)…