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JdeBP<a href="https://mastodon.social/@mcc" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@mcc</a> <a href="https://hachyderm.io/@dalias" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@dalias</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/@whitequark" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@whitequark</a> <a href="https://tech.lgbt/@becomethewaifu" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@becomethewaifu</a> It didn't replace van Smoorenberg init+rc. It replaced Upstart. The existence of Upstart is the part of history that many people forget or gloss over.van Smoorenberg init+rc always was a straw man. The Debian committee included it, but everyone acknowledged at the time that the main contenders were systemd, Upstart, and OpenRC.<a href="https://tty0.social/tags/systemd" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#systemd</a> <a href="https://tty0.social/tags/Upstart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Upstart</a>

Kevin Karhan :verified:<a href="https://social.restless.systems/@CursedSilicon" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@CursedSilicon</a> <a href="https://fedi.catto.garden/users/gettie" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@gettie</a> mostly because <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/systemD" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#systemD</a> (and it's competitiors) took all the right lessions:<ul><li>Start less</li><li>Start more in parallel</li><li>Resolve dependencies to avoid waiting times</li></ul>And basically everyone (<a href="https://infosec.space/tags/OpenRC" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#OpenRC</a>, <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Upstart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Upstart</a>, etc. Even <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/LaunchD" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#LaunchD</a> [the <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/init" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#init</a> for <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/macOS" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#macOS</a> that is literally the SystemD but before SystemD and by Apple] and <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/SMF" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#SMF</a> [<a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Sun" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Sun</a>'s SystemD for <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Solaris" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Solaris</a>] did that to allow for boot times in secinds, not minutes…<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo&t=12m17s" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo&t=12m17s</a>

Kevin Karhan :verified:<a href="https://mstdn.social/@fabiscafe" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@fabiscafe</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/@okapi" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@okapi</a> OFC <a href="https://mastodon.bsd.cafe/@chesheer" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@chesheer</a> 's <a href="https://mastodon.bsd.cafe/@chesheer/114665737941231945" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">criticism</a> is understandable on <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/FreeBSD" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#FreeBSD</a> given that <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/SystemD" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#SystemD</a> is inherenty focussed and intertwined with <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Linux" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Linux</a> (just as it's Inspiration, <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/LaunchD" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#LaunchD</a>, is intertwined with <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/macOS" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#macOS</a>'s Darwin/NeXTstep kernel).<ul><li>The problem is after some hefty "init wars" with like <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Upstart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Upstart</a> and others SystemD became the de-facto standard, and the "(statistical) rounding errors" of <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/BSD" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#BSD</a> users got sidelined, in part because BSDs looked at that mess and went like "Nyet, SysVinit is fine!" and continued their fiddling around...</li></ul>And sadly there's nothing they (or anyone else) could've done unless they had multiplied suddenly and being able to keepcthe old tech stack maintainable.<ul><li>Similarly <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Xorg" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Xorg</a> is dying and there are already GPUs that only support <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Wayland" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Wayland</a> and <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/X11" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#X11</a> apps get run using <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/XWayland" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#XWayland</a>. </li></ul>OFC I wish for more diversity in solutions, but <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Linux" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Linux</a> being <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/streamlined" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#streamlined</a> is what makes <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/portability" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#portability</a> across distros easier and boosted adoption as well as providing massive gains in solutions like <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/DXVK" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#DXVK</a>, <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Proton" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Proton</a> and <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Wine" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Wine</a> in general.<ul><li>And TBH most "<a href="https://infosec.space/tags/TechIlliterates" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#TechIlliterates</a>" aka. "<a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Normies" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Normies</a>" frankly don't give a shit what OS they use. All it needs to do is serve them their eMails and allow them to 'consoom themselbes happy' as in watching YouTube, Play games, etc.</li></ul>

JdeBP<a href="https://wandering.shop/@cstross" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@cstross</a> I enjoyed how spot-on you accidentally were. (-:Interestingly, people still argue today (as you've probably seen in these threads) as if it were van Smoorenburg rc that was the other choice for Debian et al. back in 2014; which was in reality either Upstart or OpenRC. It's a very persistent erroneous dichotomy.<a href="https://tty0.social/tags/systemd" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#systemd</a> <a href="https://tty0.social/tags/Upstart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Upstart</a> <a href="https://tty0.social/tags/OpenRC" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#OpenRC</a>

JdeBP<a href="https://wandering.shop/@cstross" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@cstross</a> Right more than you know in one respect; but wrong in another.<a href="https://tty0.social/tags/systemd" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#systemd</a> came from <a href="https://tty0.social/tags/RedHat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#RedHat</a>, not Microsoft; and the upstart was not Linux but a software package from <a href="https://tty0.social/tags/Canonical" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Canonical</a> that was literally named "Upstart". (There's a whole backstory about the copyright licence that Canonical initially granted.)Amusingly, Windows NT's Service Controller, its WININIT, and its Session Manager are three distinct things; not like systemd's architecture at all.<a href="https://tty0.social/tags/Upstart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Upstart</a>

Kevin Karhan :verified:<a href="https://infosec.exchange/@nuintari" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@nuintari</a> <a href="https://mastodon.bsd.cafe/@stefano" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@stefano</a> no, it's not inherently bad because if <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/SysVinit" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#SysVinit</a> and all the.otherbthings were fine, noone would've even considered adoping <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/systemd" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#systemd</a>. <a href="https://infosec.space/@kkarhan/112660144122509736" translate="no" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://infosec.space/@kkarhan/112660144122509736</a>Claiming "it's <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/RHEL" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#RHEL</a>'s fault" also goes way too short, cuz they - like <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/SUSE" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#SUSE</a> and <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Canonical" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Canonical</a> - do weird stuff all the time.<ul><li>Unlike say <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/snap" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#snap</a> vs. <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/flatpak" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#flatpak</a>, there's a reason we have systemd and no say <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/upstart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#upstart</a> being adopted.</li></ul>OFC you can get non-systemd distros and for <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/embedded" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#embedded</a> applications, the tradeoff of "space" vs. "complexity reconfiguring" stuff does make even a classic init script sufficient (i.e. some <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/InternetOfShit" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#InternetOfShit</a> device that isn't expected to constantly switch WiFi networks doesn't need a config more complex than the config txt from <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/RaspberryPiOS" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#RaspberryPiOS</a>)...

Christian Brauner 🦊🐺<a href="https://fosstodon.org/@alexmurray" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@alexmurray</a> <a href="https://hachyderm.io/@stgraber" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@stgraber</a> it's not that we can't it's that we don't want to. CLAs are terrible and we've never required one for any of our projects.In a way CLAs are one (of many) reasons why <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/upstart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#upstart</a> never stood a chance against <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/systemd" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#systemd</a>. Or look at the <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/hashicorp" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#hashicorp</a> debacle.

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