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Delta ChatTomorrow at <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/CFC25" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#CFC25</a> there are two sessions about <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/DeltaChat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#DeltaChat</a>: How to set up a <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#chatmail</a> relay server, an easy way to make your first timid steps with server administration: <a href="https://pretalx.c3voc.de/chaos-feminist-convention-2025/talk/TWRT8X/" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank">https://pretalx.c3voc.de/chaos-feminist-convention-2025/talk/TWRT8X/</a>And an overview on <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> apps, and how they bring back computing to your social context, locking out the tracking companies: <a href="https://pretalx.c3voc.de/chaos-feminist-convention-2025/talk/9VMYAJ/" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank">https://pretalx.c3voc.de/chaos-feminist-convention-2025/talk/9VMYAJ/</a>The webxdc talk will also be streamed, if you want to join remotely :)

Delta ChatWe don't see, or plan, a place for AI in our software stacks. A few notes. Some attempts to use AI tooling provided nothing of value in the chatmail-core-UI stacks that produce the <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#deltachat</a> store releases on all platforms. Some in the community AI-generated a base <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> app and fixed bugs afterwards.That kind of worked and was borderline useful. AI is pretty boring. We have more interesting work to do: evolve private resilient messaging by improving UX, networking, encryption, etc

Delta ChatEveryone returns to email in the end. We are there already. <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/whatsapp" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#whatsapp</a> wants you to add your email to secure your account ... despite all the nay sayers and numerous well funded attempts and claims to kill <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/email" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#email</a> not even WA can do it. <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#deltachat</a> <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#chatmail</a> and <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> are about deep collab between people, projects and operators to evolve email from within. It is not just about SMTP and IMAP and MIME and OpenPGP which are all exchangeable and can be improved ... Which we set out to do. Cheers.

Farooq | فاروق<a href="https://fosstodon.org/@Mehrad" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@Mehrad</a> wow what an interesting game!PS: Someone write a <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> version pls

Darestiet<a href="https://chaos.social/@delta" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@delta</a> Unsere Familien-Chatgruppe ist seit zwei Wochen bei <a href="https://krefeld.life/tags/DeltaChat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#DeltaChat</a>. Das funktioniert für alle, und eine erste Terminabstimmung über eine <a href="https://krefeld.life/tags/WebXDC" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#WebXDC</a>-App hat ebenfalls stattgefunden. Danke an alle, die <a href="https://krefeld.life/tags/DeltaChat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#DeltaChat</a> zu einer funktionierenden, unkomplizierten und föderierten <a href="https://krefeld.life/tags/Messengen" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Messengen</a> Alternative gemacht haben!

Delta ChatComparing <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/XMPP" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#XMPP</a> against <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/email" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#email</a> protocols is too limited. What sets <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#deltachat</a> apart is *vertical integration* and being driven by UI/UX considerations. Cross-platform Apps and Bots use the Rust core library which connects with <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#chatmail</a> relays and classic email servers based on a higher level API -- abstracting over SMTP, MIME, <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/OpenPGP" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#OpenPGP</a> etc. See <a href="https://chatmail.at" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank">https://chatmail.at</a> <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> apps in turn use an even higher level stable API abstracting over email/xmpp/... see <a href="https://webxdc.org/docs/" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank">https://webxdc.org/docs/</a>

Goffi<a href="https://framapiaf.org/@debacle" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@debacle</a> <a href="https://cr8r.gg/@farooqkz" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@farooqkz</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/@treefit" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@treefit</a> we have already shared TODO list based on Pubsub in XMPP, it's implemented in Libervia. Using a JS blob instead is a huge regression, the point of having standards is to avoid this. That said, webxdc is neat and I plan to implement it. It's notably nice for games, and few other cases.<a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/xmpp" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#xmpp</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/libervia" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#libervia</a>

Debacle<a href="https://cr8r.gg/@farooqkz" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@farooqkz</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/@treefit" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@treefit</a> Speaking of <a href="https://framapiaf.org/tags/WebXDC" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#WebXDC</a>: It is also used by one, two <a href="https://framapiaf.org/tags/Jabber" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Jabber</a> clients now, but I'm not yet convinced, if I would want it.It brings a large stack of web techology into the <a href="https://framapiaf.org/tags/chat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#chat</a> client. Sure, in a very safe way, but it still adds complexity for devices without OS webview.Useful features like shared TODO lists etc. can be implemented in <a href="https://framapiaf.org/tags/PEP" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#PEP</a> or <a href="https://framapiaf.org/tags/PubSub" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#PubSub</a>, IMHO.There is one application, I'ld like, however: <a href="https://webxdc.org/apps/#arcanecircle-livechat" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank">https://webxdc.org/apps/#arcanecircle-livechat</a> A chat in a chat! Does it use <a href="https://framapiaf.org/tags/XMPP" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#XMPP</a> by accident 🙂

adb<a href="https://troet.cafe/@pixelschubsi" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@pixelschubsi</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> in <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/DeltaChat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#DeltaChat</a> doesn't use <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/webrtc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webrtc</a> for real-time channels, please, I recommend you to read and try out things before spreading fake information for your information webxdc uses <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/iroh" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#iroh</a> for <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/p2p" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#p2p</a> in DeltaChat <a href="https://cr8r.gg/@farooqkz" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@farooqkz</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/@treefit" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@treefit</a>

Farooq | فاروق<a href="https://troet.cafe/@pixelschubsi" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@pixelschubsi</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/@treefit" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@treefit</a> The point is that DeltaChat didn't invent a new protocol, start something from scratch and write the software for it from the first line. As there is a saying:<blockquote>Good programmers write programs from scratch. Great programmers find an already existing program and use it as a base.</blockquote><a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/DeltaChat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#DeltaChat</a> didn't invent <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/Email" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Email</a>, <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/PGP" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#PGP</a>, <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/autocrypt" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#autocrypt</a> or new technology for <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a>. Even WebXDC's real time channels don't use a technology invented by DC.

Farooq | فاروقConsidering that both <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/XMPP" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#XMPP</a> and <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/Matrix" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Matrix</a> re-invented <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/decentralized" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#decentralized</a> communication while <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/email" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#email</a> was already there, makes <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#deltachat</a> more interesting.The fact that DC didn't invent a new protocol for <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/InstantMessaging" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#InstantMessaging</a> and just used the protocol which was already there, and also that how far has it gone, is mind blowing.At first when I was chatting with <a href="https://fosstodon.org/@treefit" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@treefit</a>, I already was developing a Matrix client(<a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/chooj" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#chooj</a>) for <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/KaiOS" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#KaiOS</a> and it was the only decentralized IM which I was using and investing resources into. I was skeptical but then I thought it would be a good idea to invest into DeltaChat, as well as Matrix. His argument, of course, wasn't good. He was arguing that we need multiple options in the case one of decentralized IMs fail. However this convinced me to give DC a try.But now, I see that DC has very unique advantages no other messenger has. Their moto is "playing the long term" game. Unlike Matrix which suddenly exploded, DC moves very slowly. As an advantage, DC is much more consistent, hassle free, has less bugs(in my experience) and has better UI/UX than many Matrix clients. But it has got several disadvantages. Matrix has tons more features which DC hasn't got or has added them just recently such as editing messages and reactions. And it is not yet suitable for public groups, like the ones we've got in the Matrix network.Overall, if you want secure chat with friends or family or other people you trust, DeltaChat is a very good option and the experience is very good. And I haven't seen something like <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> in any other IM. However if you want something like <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/Discord" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Discord</a> guilds for a community, Matrix is the way to go.BTW, DC currently lacks funding, thanks to what <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/Trump" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Trump</a> did with <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/OpenTechnologyFund" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#OpenTechnologyFund</a>(<a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/OTF" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#OTF</a>). If you can help in anyway, financial or otherwise, it will be extra valuable at this point. <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/IM" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#IM</a> <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/FOSS" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#FOSS</a> <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/Messenger" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Messenger</a> <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/MessagingApp" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#MessagingApp</a> <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/opensource" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#opensource</a> <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/opensourceIM" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#opensourceIM</a> <a href="https://cr8r.gg/tags/freesoftware" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#freesoftware</a>

Delta Chat<a href="https://fe.disroot.org/users/rohden" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@rohden</a> Heh, you caught it :) Indeed bots running some LLM for audio transcription or image generation exist. But they are not part of the UI/UX of <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#deltachat</a> itself, or of its <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#chatmail</a> core Rust library. Bots and <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> apps are behind extension points where we intentionally don't control or even know what people use.

Delta Chat<a href="https://infosec.exchange/@pancake" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@pancake</a> please see <a href="https://codeberg.org/webxdc/xdcget/src/branch/main/SUBMIT.md" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank">https://codeberg.org/webxdc/xdcget/src/branch/main/SUBMIT.md</a> for submitting apps. Sorry it's not more obvious, and requires setting up a codeberg account. Nobody got around to offer a more seamless way to submit <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> apps yet.

Delta Chat<a href="https://chaos.social/tags/whatsapp" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#whatsapp</a> has been feverishly copying <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/telegram" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#telegram</a> features the last year. Both are now in a battle who enshittifies faster. Mr. Durov announced that <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/Telegram" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Telegram</a>, sitting on the biggest cleartext data and metadata pile second only to <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/Meta" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Meta</a>, is to integrate "AI" the next days, see <a href="https://youtu.be/JBCY3ZE9Rz0?t=10135s" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/JBCY3ZE9Rz0?t=10135s</a> ... Let them fight. We stubbornly continue to focus on resilient private messaging for families, groups and communities, with end-to-encrypted <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> apps and decentralized agency at all levels.

Delta ChatBy design, end-to-end-encrypting <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#deltachat</a> and <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> apps only need ephemeral transport. It's a big deal. Let's compare:- <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/matrix" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#matrix</a> home servers maintain a cryptographic forever-chain of cleartext social-graph metadata. - <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/WhatsApp" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#WhatsApp</a> servers maintain cleartext metadata visible to Meta.- <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/Signal" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Signal</a> keeps encrypted metadata, hosted at GAFAM<a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#chatmail</a> relays do not persist any social graph state, also not in encrypted form. A key goal of our designs: chatmail operators can sleep well at night :)

Delta ChatThe last two days saw the number of push notifications spike. Sometimes 80K Google Play push notifications happened per hour, while the baseline was more around 10-20K. These spikes probably indicate Internet availability. <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#deltachat</a> is offline-first: you can write messages and attach media, create groups, use <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> apps, setup a second device etc. all without any Internet. Once it returns queued messages are sent out and cause push notifications. <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/OfflineFirst" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#OfflineFirst</a> is crucial for resiliency.

Delta ChatIt had to happen: in-chat multi-player <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/Quake" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Quake</a> III Arena <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> app, running over <a href="https://mastodon.social/@n0iroh" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@n0iroh</a> and using the fine work of <a href="https://ioquake3.org/" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank">https://ioquake3.org/</a> folks. Quake3 app is 1.2MB but you need to download once a game file of ~50 MB. It's only one level. Realtime-P2P-networked multiplayer gaming arranged through securely end-to-end encrypted email, from a group chat! Both Quake3's in-game chat as well as game play messages have forward-secrecy. What a weird future, eh? :)<a href="https://webxdc.org/apps/#wofwca-quake3" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank">https://webxdc.org/apps/#wofwca-quake3</a>

Delta Chat<a href="https://sfba.social/@scott" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@scott</a> <a href="https://mastodon.gassner.io/@peter" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@peter</a> if you need any advise or support let us know :) We particular recommend onboarding with a pre-existing group because then the biggest roadblock, "who can I chat with", is mitigated. Many families, little orgs and ad-hoc groups like attendees in a conference talk, successfully started using <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#deltachat</a> this way and particularly appreciated <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> apps that provide an in-chat interactive experience.

Delta Chat1 cent per five years .... is the current marginal hosting cost for a <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#chatmail</a> address, with which <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#deltachat</a> apps facilitate world-wide private messaging including interactive <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> apps that run end-to-end encrypted in any chat group.<1 Million EUR per year is the estimated marginal hosting costs for 350 Million EU citizens. Such scaling requires, however, research and development, including careful UX and <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/cryptography" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#cryptography</a> work. Related writing from <a href="https://mastodon.social/@gordon" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@gordon</a> <a href="https://newsletter.squishy.computer/p/cryptography-scales-trust" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank">https://newsletter.squishy.computer/p/cryptography-scales-trust</a>

Delta ChatYesterday, 20 people from the <a href="https://safesisters.org" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank">https://safesisters.org</a> community onboarded with <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/DeltaChat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#DeltaChat</a> in Lusaka, Zambia. Everything worked! Usability, privacy and <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/OfflineFirst" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#OfflineFirst</a> ops were appreciated and <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/webxdc" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#webxdc</a> app based organizing met strong interest. Many participants engage in addressing challenges from surveillance state actors, family and partner abuse. Moreover, people with visual impairment were happy about Android's screen reader support.It's events like this that validate our efforts!<a href="https://chaos.social/tags/africa" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#africa</a>

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